By Jeff Copper, MBA, PCC, PCAC, CPCC, ACG – December 2, 2024
In this blog post, I address how individuals with ADHD often thrive by using strategies that are nontraditional and are more suited to their brain’s unique wiring. With ADHD, their ability to focus and process information is impaired, and traditional methods may not always work. Instead, they should experiment with different environments and other approaches, like using background music or movement to optimize learning or productivity.
Some time ago, I interviewed Dr. Roberto Olivardia, a clinical instructor in psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, about his unique experiences as someone with ADHD. He shared an inspiring personal story about completing his dissertation. I found it quite interesting, and I think you will, too.
To write his doctoral dissertation and with the clock ticking, he crafted a strategy that involved working marathon sessions from 7 a.m. to 1 a.m., fueled by punk rock music like Nirvana and Green Day. The fast-paced rhythm of punk helped focus his mind, something many might find distracting. He also touched on his expertise with ADHD and its connection to sleep, diet, and body image disorders. This non-traditional approach worked for Dr. Olivardia, who notes that music has always been a critical part of his work routine. He explained that, in quiet environments like libraries, his mind wanders, but music helped to keep him grounded.
I can relate this to my coaching experience, emphasizing how important it is for those with ADHD to understand and optimize their environment. I encourage you to embrace how your brain works and find methods… regardless of how unconventional they may seem… to support your success. The takeaway from this is simple: Understand how your brain is wired and create an environment that supports your unique way of learning.
Check out my video interview with Dr. Olivardia, “Using Punk Rock to Write a Dissertation to Overcome ADHD: How It Looks for Real,” and leave your comments below. I’d love to hear your thoughts.
TRANSCRIPT:
Jeff Copper: Welcome everybody to this edition of Attention Talk Radio. I’m your host attention coach, Jeff Copper. And we’re here today with Dr. Roberto Olivardia, a clinical psychologist and, I’m not going to get this right, but lead me through the other part of it.
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: Sure. I’m a clinical instructor in the Department of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School in Boston.
Jeff Copper: And I’ve interviewed Roberto a couple of times on Attention Talk Radio with regard to ADHD and sleep issues, and ADHD and weight issues. But today we’re here to talk about a personal experience of him, and this is when he wrote his dissertation. Can you tell us a little bit about that experience?
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: Sure. I had collected the data for the dissertation and then basically it kind of sat there. And I was busy doing a lot of other projects and I had co-written a book at the time, and while I was writing that book, I had contacted the publisher and said, “When do I need to get my dissertation defended?” Because I wanted a PhD on the book. Because if we were going to take this book to the mass media, I wanted to be part of it. And so I remember it was Valentine’s Day 2000 and he said, “Well, it’s April 15th, you need to get this dissertation defended.” I hung up the phone, immediately mapped out a strategy, took a week off. I was doing my clinical internship for my doctoral program at the time. Took a week off, strategized it, and from 7:00 AM to about 1:00 AM every day, I basically wrote this almost 200 page dissertation with the likes of the Ramones in the background, Nirvana, Green Day, The Go-Gos.
Jeff Copper: Let’s paint that picture because in talking to you earlier, you would have a big screen, big monitor up, right?
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: Yes.
Jeff Copper: So in the lower part of the screen you would actually have the music playing and or videos going, is that right?
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: Absolutely, yes.
Jeff Copper: Of this punk music stuff that’s going on. You’ve got this stuff. So this incredibly stimulating thing with this music kind of going on and you’re sitting there kind of typing away for eight or nine hours a day, right?
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: Yes, absolutely. I’ve never written a term paper book report, even as far back as third grade, never written a paper without music in the background.
Jeff Copper: Really?
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: Or some television show as white noise in the background. I find actually if I were to be in a quiet library, I would be completely distracted because my mind will search for something to attach itself to.
Jeff Copper: So do you feel like, is that music playing, I mean, is it white noise in the background or every once in a while you take a break and listen to it? Or in your mind, how does that serve you?
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: It’s actually a little bit of both. I mean, I’m a big punk rock music fan and punk rock is very fast, doesn’t have many sort of interludes within the music. Very fast drumming, I love playing the drums. And so there was something about that rhythm that just, in the way that people use music to do exercise, to do aerobic exercise. And so it really would be completely distracting probably to other people, but to my brain it actually grounds me and anchors me and really gave me the fluidity that I needed to get through this dissertation.
Jeff Copper: And one of the reasons why I want to interview is I think a lot of people out there they hear something, they take a picture and they take a look at what that’s supposed to be. And here’s somebody that is… I’ve coached a lot of people who needed white noise in the background, whether it’s a vacuum cleaner or a fan or rain on a tin roof, that’s just kind of monotone, that’s just kind going down to do this stuff. But on this one, I’m hearing that fast beat and having that actually kind of revs up your mind and kind of keeps you going, which is not necessarily what I think would work for everybody.
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: No, definitely not. I mean reading was always very difficult for me growing up. The idea of even sitting still for 15 minutes and reading something. And when I was in graduate school I had thousands of pages of reading that I have to read, and I really cared about reading it because I love psychology and have a passion for it. And growing up in Boston, we have a great subway system, and I was on the subway train and I had forgotten my Walkman, so we’re talking in the days before the iPod, and I thought, what am I going to do? And I thought, well, why don’t I just do some of my reading on the train? And to my amazement, I realized that I could read a lot faster on the train. So I did my own experiment with this, and I timed within a 15-minute window how much I can read when I’m sitting in my apartment versus on the train. And it was seven pages to one.
Jeff Copper: Wow. Wow.
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: Seven pages on the train for every one in my apartment.
Jeff Copper: Wow.
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: So you know what I did is I would go and purposely ride the subway from one end of the line to the other multiple times to read.
Jeff Copper: That’s a hell of a lot more efficient.
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: So it was a lot more efficient. So instead of going to the library, I was going to the subway.
Jeff Copper: What brings this out is you have a diagnosis of ADHD, right?
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: Yes. I have ADHD.
Jeff Copper: So number one is everybody out there, this guy is really, really bright. I’ve interviewed him before. I’m going to interview him again on some other stuff. So he’s really, really smart. And he got through this. But what I really like about it as an ADHD coach, I’m so always talking to people it’s not the topic, it’s a lot of times the environment. And I’m hearing is that the environment has a huge effect on you and absorbing information and you’ve learned to manipulate that environment to the way your brain works.
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: Definitely.
Jeff Copper: And that’s one of the reasons I wanted to have you on is, one, you’re such a success story. You do great work. You’re bright. You out there can do that. And at the same time, it’s really about getting you to know how you work as an individual. So I have a little bit of a [inaudible 00:05:30] sometimes with a top 10 list of obvious solutions because if you’re like everybody that list would work. But when you’re not like everybody, you need to look at everything that’s not on the top 10 list, and I think this is a great example.
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: Absolutely.
Jeff Copper: You might like listening to elevator music in the background and not punk music and stuff. It doesn’t really matter. Just do what works for you.
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: Absolutely. And I think that is the number one message that I have my clients take away with, members of my own family who have ADHD take away with, is really to not look this as a doomsday diagnosis or term. It’s really understanding, okay, how is my brain wired? And exactly like you said, how do I optimize my environment that matches that? And I did very bizarre, unconventional things to get through school, but they never hurt me and they never hurt anybody else. And so as far as I was concerned, whatever I needed to do, and I ended up getting a PhD in the process.
Jeff Copper: And I’ll tell you, as a coach, writing is difficult for me. So I started a podcast that’s now Attention Talk Radio because it’s how I work. David Giwerc who runs the ADD Coach Academy, he struggled in school. He found that he was a very kinesthetic learner. He would sit and rock in a rocking chair and sing his notes to himself and that’s how he could remember it. Again, these are just focused on how your brain is wired.
And real quickly, Dr. Olivardia, you are an expert on ADHD, particularly when it comes to sleep issues, diet issues, OCD, and I don’t know how to frame out the body thing. You want to explain that real quick?
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: Sure. I also specialize in the field of body image disorders and eating disorders, particularly with men and with boys. And I see a very high association of ADHD and eating disorders, particularly binge-eating disorder and bulimia nervosum. And now in the eating disorder field, that’s starting to catch on more, the awareness of ADHD. And it’s a field that I’m very passionate about and have seen a lot of people who have made amazing strides who are quite stuck in their eating disorder treatment. But once you understood the ADHD and really put it through an ADHD lens, the treatment just goes into a different….
Jeff Copper: And I’ll say I was at a presentation here was on OCD at the CHADD Conference, and it was interesting because I was listening to you talk about OCD and ADHD and the diagnosis and how sometimes it’s missed. And when those have OCD and they get the ADHD diagnosis, so much can be done because you realize what’s there.
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: Oh, absolutely.
Jeff Copper: So for those that would like to learn more or contact you, what’s the best place to go?
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: Sure. The best would be to just email me directly and I welcome everybody out there to email me. My email is Roberto, R-O-B-E-R-T-O, underscore Olivardia, which is O-L-I-V as in Victor, A-R-D as in Daniel, I-A @HMS as in Harry Mary Sally, dot, Harvard, dot E-D-U. So it’s a long one but it’s Roberto_Olivardia@hms.harvard.edu. And no question is too small. Please feel free to email me. I love getting emails from people from all over the world.
Jeff Copper: And Robert, I tell you, he’s a really bright guy, he’s very approachable. So again, thank you very much for coming on the show.
Dr. Roberto Olivardia: Thanks Jeff for having me.
Jeff Copper: All right. Thanks.